Creationist leader: Evolutionists have no place in society
Christian Dem in NC printable version print page     Bookmark and Share
Mon Aug 29, 2011 at 09:04:30 AM EST
cross-posted at dKos

Yesterday, Kossack RfrancisR wrote about about a fringe fundie outfit that proposes a national registry of atheists.  One of the commenters happened to find a link to a creationist, Tom Wills, suggesting that evolutionists should not be allowed to vote, and for good measure should be "expelled from civilized society."  Well, I happened to track down the original document--an article in the July/August newsletter of the Creation Science Association of Mid-America. The article, entitled "Should Evolutionists Be Allowed to Vote?", is simply breathtaking in its unhinged nature.

Wills argues that believing in evolution makes it impossible to interact with others.

  • They do not and can not know the purpose for Man. In fact, all of them believe Man has no purpose.
  • Therefore, they cannot make informed judgments about how men should behave toward each other, or what would be "good" or "bad" for any group of men to do, or not do.
  • Thus, they have no sane foundation upon which to base “laws” or rational for insisting that other men obey the laws.
  • Thus, the religion they profess to believe renders them incapable of participating in any decision about what men ought to do. But, that is the purpose of all law.
  • Therefore, in a sane society, evolutionists should not be allowed to vote, or influence laws or people in any way!  They should, perhaps, make bricks to earn enough to eat.

Just in case you're wondering--this isn't coming from a fringe kook.  This is coming from the president of the Creation Science Association of Mid-America.  In other words, we have the leader of a mainstream creationist organization saying that evolutionists don't belong in our society.  Whether you're a creationist or an evolutionist, this is simply unacceptable.

Earlier Lewis offers the standard line that evolution's bastard child, social Darwinism, gave birth to Communism and Fascism.  Ironic, since what Lewis is proposing could have easily come from Stalin, Hitler or Mussolini's playbook.

The really frightening thing is that this is coming from a supposedly mainstream outfit on the religious right.  But then again, this shouldn't be entirely surprising.  After all, Operation Rescue, a supposedly mainstream pro-life group, saw fit to hire Cheryl Sullenger, a convicted clinic-bomber.   And yet, not only is she still on Operation Rescue's payroll, but she's been interviewed by OneNewsNow at least once.

If this is what passes for mainstream behavior on the religious right, you really have to wonder if the Latter Rain/dominionist/New Apostolic Reformation crowd really did fall too far from the tree.


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Creationist leader: Evolutionists have no place in society | 27 comments (27 topical, 0 hidden)
That's Tom Willis ! (none / 0)
His name is Tom Willis, not Tom Wills, but that's a minor point. Thank you for posting this! - I don't know whether Willis is a "fringe kook" or not, but as a point of fact he is a Geocentrist.

by Bruce Wilson on Mon Aug 29, 2011 at 09:21:03 AM EST
He's actually mainstream on paper (none / 0)
He helped draft the Kansas Board of Education's infamous science standards back in 1999.

by Christian Dem in NC on Mon Aug 29, 2011 at 03:41:18 PM EST
Parent


I would argue (none / 0)
Evangelical Christianity carries within itself the seeds of dominionism (which in my opinion is fundamentalism taken to extremes - coercing outsiders as well as insiders to conform).

As long as people are encouraged or driven to try to convert others, these seeds exist.  As long as they do not try to be Christ-like, but try to push people into believing in Jesus, the risk of the rise of fundamentalist and dominionist groups WILL exist.

It was a small step for the evangelical church missionaries sent to my people to move from trying to persuade people to using nasty tricks (such as supplying bad seed to non-Christians and good seed to converts) and demonizing the original belief systems, which by the way has always been SOP for evangelical Christianity.  It's another small step from using nasty tricks like that (which many of my people haven't forgotten) to using the law to coerce conversions, and another small step to taking children away to be indoctrinated.  All of these things were and are common, by the way.  I've met people my age and younger who were in the "boarding schools" - and who were regularly sexually, mentally, and emotionally abused because they were Indian.  

Conversion at gunpoint/swordpoint has also been documented with evangelical Christianity, and it's not that big a step from using legal tricks to coerce people.

Coercion is the hallmark of dominionism.  It's also part of fundamentalism, but because it's internal, it's not noted as much.

Most of evangelical Christianity has forgotten what being a Witness actually is... you don't try to convince people to think differently, you tell of your own experiences.  The same as being a witness in court.  They forget that Jesus never ordered people to convert others, but He did order his disciples to go out and share the good news.  Good news... not "You have to believe in Jesus".   They have forgotten what the good news was, and haven't spent the time they should on reflecting on what Jesus actually taught.  They've forgotten that what attracted people to Jesus was that he spread hope (and "helping" people in order to convert them poisons hope).

The Rev. Robert Willoughby recently published a good book titled "The Radical Rabbi from Nazareth".  It talks some about what Jesus was trying to teach.  Jesus' message was about nonviolent resistance to abusive authority, justice for the poor and downtrodden, and that God cared.   NOT "You must believe and OBEY!!!" like I've heard from mainstream preachers/priests as well as from dominionists/fundamentalists.  If the churches would actually try to emulate and follow Jesus, rather than pushing religion on people, the world would be a far greater place - and dominionism (and fundamentalism) would not find fertile soil for growth.

So, I can easily argue that dominionism has not fallen far from the tree at all.


by ArchaeoBob on Mon Aug 29, 2011 at 11:21:04 AM EST


Reciprocal Altruism? (none / 0)
I can't be the only person who grasp this concept. It is quite simple, organisms will help other organisms with the expectation that the latter will help the former. So how in the name of sanity an this person honestly proclaim that darwinism, which is so far as I know not an actual movement, has no morality. The actual name of the movement is rationalism, which so far as I know holds very little power in the US.  


by Hirador on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 03:42:46 PM EST
"Darwinism" label applied by churches (none / 0)
When my neighbor learned I had taught evolution, I got a fifteen minute rant from her... and she said that we were forcing our religion (she called it "Darwinism") in the schools (and we're not even supposed to teach it at the college/university level).  She insisted that we "Believed in Evolution and followed the teachings of Darwin".  I tried  to explain to her that we didn't "believe" in evolution - that it was a fact, had been observed occurring in several different species, and that Darwin's theory best explained evolution.  She just got louder and angrier and insisted we were "teaching false religion in the schools", and finally I had to walk away - it was getting too embarrassing and it was obvious I was getting nowhere.  

One of her big points she kept repeating was "I am a young earth creationist!!!"  (Maybe that's their new religion - instead of being Christian.)  She kept on saying that evolution was a lie and that we were teaching lies.

I've read since then that some churches say that our "religion" is evolution and our "teacher" (or whatever) is Darwin.  The way one description sounded, you would think we looked at Darwin in much the same way that Christianity views Jesus.  It sounded like we all were followers of some new religion.  Funny, but some of my colleagues are Christian (as I am), some are Jewish, some are Muslim, and a few are pagan or atheist.  

Since I endured my neighbor's rant (several months ago), she's only spoken with me once - and it didn't sound very friendly.

(Maybe I should be glad...)

There is reciprocal altruism, and there is "pure" altruism.  Both have been observed.  It seems that there is a drive to help the Other irregardless if the Other will reciprocate or not.  I myself do not buy the purely biological argument for the rise of altruism, but I will also say that is because of subjective experience and religious/philosophical belief - that cannot be explained in a scientific or materialistic way.
 

by ArchaeoBob on Wed Aug 31, 2011 at 10:49:17 PM EST
Parent

I agree with you fully (none / 0)
Altruism exists in all forms, I guess I was responding to the unasked question of a guiding morality in the supposed absence of God. And in reality altruism shouldn't be about why it is done, simply that it is done.

I'm really sorry about your neighbor though, I've always had trouble with the whole notion of "Darwinism" I was always under the impression that Charles Darwin was writing a book about biology not philosophy, perhaps I'm wrong, but there I go again trying to be logical about this.



by Hirador on Mon Sep 05, 2011 at 09:46:45 PM EST
Parent
Darwin was a Minister (none / 0)
Charles Darwin was a Methodist Minister first and a Biologist second. His lifelong quest was to discover how the Almighty had gone about the business of creation. As the evidence piled up and the outlines of the Theory of Evolution came into sharper and sharper focus, he was overjoyed that he had discovered the marvellous way in which God had made the plants and animals on the Earth, and was sure this knowledge would be a huge proof of the Bible and a buoy to the faith and practice of all Christians. The controversy began, mainly in the mountains of East Tennessee when some of the clergy there took umbrage with the notion that "man came from monkeys". Why God would never do that! (You see, Fundamentalists have a direct line to the mind of God and know what he thinks, wants, and desires... No big ego's there, eh?) This led to the infamous Scopes Trial and on and on to the present day. That those who got the ball rolling were barely educated, mountain preachers with congregations mostly illiterate set the stage for the fundamentalist=illiterate vs. "Darwinist"=college professor/scientist framing of the "debate". No better way to get the insulted believers to stiffen their spines in opposition, what with being called stupid and wrong and all. But the REAL argument was, and IS, will the Bible be taught in the Public Schools as the final authority for truth on scientific subjects, or not. Even though the Supreme Court has supposedly settled this issue, those on the far right (the political far right) never accept change if it is a defeat of their viewpoints, and continue to fight on and on. Now the answer is to just abolish public education altogether!! Since their views are based on the beliefs of a Bronze Age tribe and a book about that tribe, it's all they have - changeless and eternal. Reason and evidence means nothing. Those who do not believe are the enemy and must be converted or silenced by whatever means necessary. All "book" religions share these traits. Even showing that the "book" is a fabrication and a deliberate mashup of other religions imposed by a Roman Caesar is denied, argument is evidence of evil. Circular reasoning is impossible to reason with because it's not reason. So the FACT that Darwin was a committed, ordained Christian Minister seeking to do God's work, and in God's name means nothing; because it's not about God, it's about being right. It's about Ego reduced to Id by disconnecting reason and reflection from the equation. Yes, that IS the definition of pathology...

by Oldscribe on Tue Sep 06, 2011 at 03:42:21 PM EST
Parent




The point is to make the most extreme dominant (none / 0)
The core elements plan and push. Deeper, wider and farther they go. Getting others to join them. The less educated in wide matters the easier it is. And when you are relentless and single minded about it all the better. The point is to make their own way of seeing things and doing to be the main stream. They certainly are concerning Christianity. But they don't have to control 100% in the beginning but should they take control of our gov't they will be the dominant factor. Just like the Nazis in Germany, the Phalanx in Spain, Boshevicks in Russia etc. When the extreme is mainstream and what is common and compassionate and is civil over militant loses out. Marginalized.

by Nightgaunt on Sun Sep 04, 2011 at 07:54:46 PM EST

Let's cut to the chase shall we? (none / 0)
If these people get their way, there will be ghettos,
gas chambers and crematoriums. Don't think it can't happen again. It's come to the point where they don't even try to hide these sentiments anymore. We are approaching a very dangerous inflection point in this country.

by Eiger98 on Mon Sep 05, 2011 at 11:56:58 PM EST
Sadly, you are dead right... (none / 0)
The good news (as regards the NAR, Dominionists, etc. - I'm not sure it's a good thing overall) is that year on year church membership and attendance continue to drop. Pentecostals, fundamentalists, and evangelicals only make up a small component of the population, and a small component of Protestants, and even smaller component of Christians. The danger is, their affinity for and connection with politics and politicians. This lenses their influence greatly and out of all proportion to their actual numbers. But their high profile, and the fact that they are incapable of comprehending just how inflammatory, unreasonable, and alien their views are to the vast majority of Christians, and an even vaster majority of Americans make them particularly vulnerable. The key is in not attacking what they *believe*, but what they *say*. Most Americans will tolerate beliefs, but when someone is saying they want to take away your civil rights, force their dogma on your children, and exterminate those that disagree with them - THEN you will get the attention of even the most tolerant and disinterested American!

by Oldscribe on Tue Sep 06, 2011 at 04:00:21 PM EST
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Creationist leader: Evolutionists have no place in society | 27 comments (27 topical, 0 hidden)

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